coat + t-shirt. Louis Vuitton opposite t-shirt + trousers. Louis Vuitton belt. Studio Nicholson
Letting go of all the noise, Hebert Nordrum disappears into Colonel Brandon in Georgia Oakley’s ‘ Sense & Sensibility ‘, transforming before our eyes to steal our hearts, and Marianne’s (Esme Creed-Miles). Like the Colonel Brandon of Austen’s novel, his love for her isn’t loud or over the top.
It’s subtly affectionate and achingly tender—the definition of loving from afar. Through Nordum’s performance, you sense his longing and willingness to step aside in the name of her happiness when she falls for the roguish Willoughby (Frank Dillane).
Taking comfort in using Oakley’s script as his compass and guide, he moved away from looking into other iterations of the character. A wise move that proved fruitful, even though he was well aware of the love surrounding the 1995 Ang Lee film starring Emma Thompson and Kate Winslet.
A film that his mother and sister watch often and that he loves, too.
The wonderful thing about adaptations of the same story is approaching it from different angles, leaving much open to interpretation. While he was familiar with Alan Rickman’s Brandon, he had no intention of allowing that to dictate what he did with Oakley’s version.
Instead, he embraced the unknown, relying on nothing but the script and his instinct. That instinct paid off, giving way to a performance that truly captivates our minds and leaves you rooting for him to get the girl.
Chatting with Schön!, Herbert Nordum discusses making characters feel distinct, the best declarations of love put to film, a character he would like to revisit given the chance, and more.
coat, t-shirt + trousers. Louis Vuitton shoes. Church’s belt. Studio Nicholson opposite top + trousers. Hermes
You recently discussed ‘The Worst Person in the World’, saying that when you read the script, you fell in love with the characters and were moved by the story. What was it about ‘Sense & Sensibility’ and Colonel Brandon that enticed you? Were you familiar with the Austen novel?
I think the thing that grabbed me straight away was Georgia Oakley, the director. I absolutely loved her first film, ‘Blue Jean’. It was a fantastic film. You can immediately see she has a great ability to talk about the truly intimate feelings of a person. For her to do this epic love story was so exciting.
I hadn’t read the book beforehand. I had seen Ang Lee’s version.
It’s one of my mother’s and my sister’s favourite films, and I love it, too. They really lean into the comedy of it all, which is great.
I didn’t go back to it for this film. I eventually read the book, but then I decided very quickly to only have the script and Georgia as my references.
That’s where I went for questions and ideas. I didn’t want to think about other versions of it.
We’ve seen other iterations of Colonel Brandon before, most notably the late Alan Rickman. When tackling a famous character like Colonel Brandon, Romeo, or Hamlet, how do you make them feel distinct to you and the audience?
You have to let go of everyone else’s idea of it, and that can be difficult. Alan Rickman played this character, and I think everything he did became iconic: ‘Die Hard’, ‘Harry Potter’, ‘Love Actually’, ‘Sense and Sensibility’. I don’t think it was intentional, but he became a part of pop culture. I can’t really play iconic. When I look in the mirror, I don’t really see an icon.
I see a person, a human. I had to find Colonel Brandon in me.
Not me trying to find the character, but looking inwards and trying to find which part of Colonel Brandon was in there. The same with Hamlet and Romeo.
I saw Sandra Hüller play Hamlet in Germany and Lars Eidinger. I saw that a couple of times.
Sandra Hüller’s version was so exceptionally inspiring. But then you have to do it and find it yourself.
For me, the way to do it is to look inwards and not at other ideas of it. It’s like reducing the noise around you and bringing yourself to it.
Like everyone else, I’m a unique person. If I bring myself into it, it will hopefully become something that doesn’t look like anything else.
This version of ‘Sense & Sensibility’ feels so different from the Ang Lee iteration. With Colonel Brandon, we get to see more of him here, which I appreciated. He’s quietly affectionate. He never forces his presence on the Dashwoods. What is it about Marianne and the Dashwood family that makes him so endeared to them?
I think it all begins with Marianne. In my interpretation, he falls completely, madly in love at first sight, but he doesn’t know how to handle it.
He has no words. He’s not as smooth.
The few times I’ve fallen in love, that’s kind of how I react. I become very awkward and nervous and afraid of saying the wrong thing.
I think he just cares deeply about the family through her. He’s also a person who wants to do what’s right.
That sounds like a cliché, but he loves her, and he can’t have her, so he accepts that. But what can he do?
He can help her family. He wants her to be happy, even without him.
I see that as a little bit of a heroic act, a bit of a sacrifice.
When you’re looking at scripts, what are you looking for as a creative? What itch are you trying to scratch?
First and foremost, the only thing I’m interested in is the director. I think movies are a director’s medium.
These are the people I’ve learned the most from. I just really want to work with great directors.
That’s the focus. People ask me if there’s a dream role, and that really doesn’t exist for me.
Every character is interesting, just like every person is interesting when you get to know them. It’s all about who’s making it.
What kind of point of view is it? I also think that every story has already been told.
It’s more about how you tell that story and the angle you bring to it.
full look. Ami Paris opposite full look. Louis Vuitton
Looking over your filmography and extensive stage work, is there a role you felt particularly attached to or would want to revisit?
I think without a doubt, it’s Hamlet. I played him for a year, then we had a break for a year, and then we went back. Every night I learned something new. You can never fully understand the ideas he’s [Shakespeare] playing around with. It’s also an extremely difficult role. I was working with my favourite theatre director, Johannes Dahl, in Norway. I agreed with the way he saw the story.
I would want to do it again, but I would also hesitate a bit because it was deeply depressing. To have the end of your day, every day, be the hardest thing ever was difficult. I wouldn’t jump on it with huge amounts of enthusiasm. But I would, without a doubt, do it because I learned so much. I know I would learn so much more.
Once you do the bows and walk off that stage, how do you compartmentalise?
I don’t know yet. I’m not a method actor. I do always bring my characters with me. That sounds pretentious, but it does stick when you try to trick your body into thinking things are real. Even in your mind, you know these things haven’t really happened, but your body still feels it. I’m still trying to figure everything out.
jacket. Hermes opposite full look. Ami Paris
Each sister’s experience parallels their personalities. Eleanor gets this sweeping, almost ostentatious declaration to her reserved nature, while Marianne, who is wild and carefree, gets a sense of peace. What’s your favourite declaration of love put to screen? Why did it move you?
There are so many good love stories. They aren’t all romantic, but there are a lot of great films about love.
I think it’s the most important theme of any story. It’s the one theme I keep going back to.
Wow, that’s such a good question again. I recently re-watched ‘In the Mood for Love’, which is an amazing film.
It’s devastating, and it’s so beautiful. Most films that are beautiful are very focused, like ‘The Tree of Life’, or have a huge canvas like ‘Lawrence of Arabia’.
The film is so beautiful. It’s only about these two people, often inside restaurants, apartments, and a cab.
It’s quiet and devastating, but it feels so cinematic and beautiful.
I recently watched ‘When Harry Met Sally’. It’s such a perfect film.
The script is perfect. The way New York is captured on film is so stunning.
‘Blue Valentine’, there are so many. I was talking about romantic films with my brother, who is the coolest person in the world.
He showed me David Lynch, Wu-Tang, Nina Simone, and Lars von Trier, the Danish director. I always go to him if I need to get inspired.
He recommended a film called ‘Happy Together’. It’s directed by Wong Kar-Wai.
He thinks this is the most beautiful film about a romantic couple.
full look. Ami Paris opposite full look. Ami Paris
One of my favourite lines from the film comes when Marianne is playing the pianoforte. Admittedly, she’s not the best, but I love it when Brandon, who’s being teased about how intently he’s watching her play, says something along the lines of, “I am paying her the compliment of my attention.”
I love that line so much. I haven’t played in any other films where the language is heightened.
It’s usually about what the character wants in the scene. What do I want in the scene?
What do I need? What are my insecurities?
Who do I want to support? But in this film, the language is very important, which is one of the things I think Georgia does so well.
She makes it authentic, grounded, but at the same time, she plays around. It’s tactile.
It feels charged. It’s a pretty good line.
What challenged you as an actor on this particular set?
Easy answer. It was the language.
I had to work so hard. I have a Norwegian accent, so I had to work hard with a wonderful dialect coach.
I had a weird technique. I had a wine cork in my mouth, so when I would pronounce, all the muscles in my mouth would get used to the melody.
Then, when I took the wine cork out, it became more fluent and much easier to say the sentences. It was nerve-wracking because I had played English-speaking parts before, but small parts.
This was the biggest project, the biggest part. I had to play British and speak old English.
If you could advise young Herbert at the very beginning of his career, what would you say to him?
Just enjoy it. Relax.
I think I probably need to hear that now as well. I haven’t learned it yet.
I’m so lucky to get to do what I want to do. I’m able to support my kids.
I’m so lucky. I enjoy acting so much.
It would be wrong to say, “Try to enjoy it,” because I love it. I love it so much that I do nothing else.
So, then I’d say, “Take joy in the work.”
full look. Ami Paris opposite top + trousers. Hermès
photography. Guy Lowndes fashion. Andrew Burling talent. Hebert Nordrum casting. Emma Fleming grooming. Carlos Ferraz @ Carol Hayes Management using Elemis production. Clara La Rosa editor. Kelsey Barnes interview. Dana Reboe location. InterContinental London Park Lane special thanks. Fraser Communications
For more than half a century, ‘Star Trek’ has invited audiences to look beyond the stars — and, in doing so, to look more closely at ourselves. With ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’, that tradition continues through stories that blend the spectacle of science fiction with questions of identity, morality, human connection and the possibilities of the future.
For actress Jess Bush , joining that universe offered an opportunity to explore those ideas from inside one of television’s most enduring cultural phenomena. As Christine Chapel, Bush has brought a distinctive emotional complexity to a character navigating ambition, intimacy, friendship and self-discovery.
Her path to ‘Strange New Worlds’ was hardly conventional. A painter before becoming an actor, Bush was drawn to the vulnerability and collaborative nature of performance.
That same curiosity now informs her approach to a demanding production where precision, spectacle and spontaneity must coexist.
Schön! spoke with Bush about her unconventional route into acting, the experience of joining the ‘Star Trek’ universe, the friendship at the heart of Chapel’s story, and what the series can teach us about connection, compassion and being human.
cardigan, dress + scarf. Marina Rinaldi shoes. All Saints ear cuff (left). Acne ear cuff (right). Alan Crocetti belt. Below the Belt boot garters. Stylist’s Archive opposite blazer + neck piece. Mariam Seddiq
jacket, sweater + skirt. Banded Together boots. Jimmy Choo earrings. Stylist’s Archive opposite blazer, bralette + trousers. Amy Cottrell shoes. Betts necklaces. RELIC
What first inspired you to pursue acting, and when did you realize it was something you wanted to build a career around?
Gosh, it was so long ago now, I was an entirely different person back then. What first pulled me in was that acting was a completely foreign and terrifying medium. I was a painter at the time—I’d been making my art in a private way for years. I could decide when and how my work would be seen while watching safely from behind the curtain.
But with acting you have to have your process witnessed, which felt wild and exposing. The art of it lives fleetingly in the space between you and another person, and you need other artists to pay attention and catch it. It was so new and thrilling to me—I was hooked on how uncomfortable and alive it all made me feel.
Most of us spend the majority of our lives at work. For me, it’s the active interplay between people—other actors, camera operators, directors, SFX, audiences and on and on—that drew me into acting as a career. I find it hard to resist an opportunity to plug into this collaborative superpower we have as connected, empathetic animals. It really affirms the most brilliant parts of what it means to be a human.
In white Australian culture we’re emotionally suppressed and drenched in shame—it feels both scary and good to actively work against that and make things that hopefully help people feel more connected to their emotional experience.
Looking back at your early roles, what lessons have stayed with you and continue to influence the way you approach a character?
So much more information and detail reveals itself to you when you’re playing. This was a tough lesson for me because growing up I was always taught to work hard, that worthwhile things should be a struggle. But if you’re having fun and you hold things lightly, you’ll always find something much more interesting.
I used to be crushed by imposter syndrome and I learned that the best way to get it off my back was to forget about myself and just show up and be open and curious to what’s going on, and to be unashamed to ask questions about things I don’t understand. And to expect that from everyone else. That’s all that anyone ever wants from you anyway.
How did the opportunity to work on ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ come about, and what was your reaction when you found out you had landed the role?
I had just decided to take a break from acting before the ‘Strange New Worlds’ audition. It’s crazy how often you hear that story, but it’s true. I was feeling pretty destroyed and took a step back to work on a major sculptural work for a year.
I told my managers I only wanted them to send an audition through if it was one we couldn’t turn down. When I was installing the sculpture for exhibition, the casting director requested me for ‘Star Trek’. The whole casting process was done over Zoom across a couple of months—I didn’t meet anyone from the show until I walked onto set in Canada.
I was away on holiday with my friends when I finally got the call. I lost control of my body and face-planted in the sand for a while and started to weepy-laugh. It was just the most inconceivable win to me after years of hard work, questioning, rejection and sacrifice. My body gave out under the euphoria and relief of such a massive vindication. My life completely changed in that moment.
blazer, dress + shoes. Dolce & Gabbana earrings. Givenchy @ Constantina Vintage ear cuffs. Stylist’s Archive hosiery. Chusette opposite rollneck. ZIMMERLI skirt (worn as dress). Mariam Seddiq shoes. Valentino bag. Gail Sorronda hosiery. Chusette
dress, rollneck + sleeves. Gail Sorronda shoes. Valentino earrings. Monet Vintage
What can you tell us about your character, and what did you find most compelling about playing her?
What I find most compelling about playing Chapel is that she’s emotionally avoidant, career-ambitious, and commitment-phobic, which is not a feminine archetype you typically see embraced on screen, especially in a character who physically presents as “fem-sexy.”
I feel like women who don’t want a romantic relationship with anyone are often portrayed as broken or unattractive.
I love that her path to deeper intimacy and connection is told mostly through a platonic relationship. Her friendship with the doctor is super deep and loving, but it’s unmistakably a friendship. You don’t often see that story told on screen without the inferred possibility of sexual tension.
I’ve loved telling a story that centres a friendship as the most impactful relationship in her life, where she finds her most potent and enduring love and transformation.
The ‘Star Trek’ franchise carries decades of history and an exceptionally devoted audience. Did that legacy create pressure for you, or did it give you something exciting to draw upon?
I was definitely a little daunted stepping into such a massive and technically complex production—but I didn’t feel pressured by the legacy of ‘Star Trek’ or the fandom. That part felt like a massive gift.
If anything, the history of the show and the breadth of material made our mission clearer. The showrunners, producers, fans and the other actors in the ‘Star Trek’ universe have been so welcoming and supportive—it really was like entering a new family of mentors and cheerleaders who, I’ve felt, lit the way for me.
What was it like stepping onto the sets of ‘Strange New Worlds’ for the first time? Did the scale and detail of the production change the way you approached the work?
Insane. You are just a small part of something so spectacular and complex. There are so many moving parts and your performance won’t always be prioritised, so you have to get really good at energy management.
It could be three hours between shots because they’re resetting some flame cannons and you might be called in for your close-up at 3:30 a.m. after doing the scene 85 times in the past 16 hours in a spacesuit that you can’t sit down in and you can’t hear anything through the helmet.
You have to approach it like an athlete—you need mental and emotional stamina, and the ability to compartmentalise and focus on one thing in the middle of a room full of 200 people operating crazy stuff around you. I honestly love it all, though.
I have a lot of energy, so I need to cut laps around the park or wrestle someone at the end of the day if I haven’t had enough stimulation. The unpredictable challenges keep me sane and level.
Is there a particular scene, episode or moment from your time on the series that remains especially memorable for you?
In Season Four, Episode Six—“Off Hour”—holds a special place for me. For the whole episode, my best friend on the ship, Dr. M’Benga, played by Babs Olusanmokun, and I are trapped alone in sickbay together after the ship gets stuck in a wormhole and is being torn apart.
He’s been lethally crushed and pinned behind a piece of equipment, and we spend the whole episode in a two-hander facing his imminent death. It was physically pretty challenging. I finished up sick and bruised like a peach, but I felt like my heart was permanently expanded after that experience with Babs.
top. Cappellazzo bralette + shorts. Stylist’s Archive hosiery. Chusette opposite dress. Bianca Spender ear cuff. Alan Crocetti
jacket + trousers. Banded Together rollneck. Zimmerli boots. AQUAZURRA earrings. Nina Ricci Vintage opposite camisole + skirt. Dolce & Gabbana earrings. YSL @ Constantina Vintage ring. Chloe hosiery. Chusette
Science fiction often uses imagined futures to interrogate the anxieties and assumptions of the present. What do you think ‘Strange New Worlds’ is saying about the world we live in now?
So many things, but I think at the core of every story it asks us to try meeting who and what we don’t know with curiosity and compassion first, before fear.
Acting requires you to inhabit perspectives that may be profoundly different from your own. Has a role ever genuinely changed your understanding of human nature or altered the way you see the world?
I’m not sure if this directly answers your question — but in a more immediate, visceral sense, yes. This job forces you to make friends with the parts of yourself that you could hide from forever in any other line of work.
I’ve had to confront things in myself I didn’t feel capable to, over and over again, and let those parts be witnessed and held by other people. I think learning to embrace the more difficult parts of myself has grown my tolerance and capacity to hold space for other people, for ambiguity, for contradicting truths, for things I don’t fully understand.
That, and being inside celebrity culture and the public-image side of things has been bizarre, sometimes fascinating, sometimes disorienting. It’s a strange feeling when people start to look at you differently and you realise you’ve become something else to people you don’t know. No one prepares you for that part.
The ‘Star Trek’ tradition has long explored ethics, identity, technology and the possibility of a better society. Which of those ideas resonates most strongly with you as an artist?
I would say what resonates with me most artistically is the possibility for a better society. I like to make things that encourage honesty, self-acceptance and a sense of wonder. I think those things are gateways to more connection between people and a greater appreciation for life.
There’s an interesting tension between the precision of a major science-fiction production and the vulnerability and spontaneity required of an actor. How do you reconcile those two things in your work?
Honestly, it’s really a tricky skill that I’ve honed through this job. The other departments around you are operating towards a precise vision and often talk in terms of an image they want to see.
As an actor, you can’t be doing that. You can’t be thinking about the end result—as I said before, you have to be in process.
You learn to translate other people’s visions and directions into your own private language that you can stay present and active to, often in a split second before rolling.
You can’t just operate on raw talent and spontaneity; you need to build a strong sense of how you fit into the larger dance. And patience. You need a lot of patience and focus to stay open and alive inside precise choreography.
When you look at your career so far, do you see acting primarily as an exercise in transformation—becoming someone else—or as a process of discovering and revealing aspects of yourself?
In my career so far it has always felt like a discovering, as well as a revealing and amplification of different things that have lived in me. I feel transformation is sparked by discovery anyway—it always starts there. Every trait, no matter how outlandish or otherworldly or that feels different to what I understand as “me,” originates from something real I’ve felt.
photography. Dean Podmore art direction, fashion + production. Carlos Mangubat talent. Jess Bush hair + make up. Sylvia Ura video. Faisal Payenda @ Valeon Studios fashion assistants. Rini Pradhan , Kyah Purling + Ava Viscariello studio. Valeon Studios
Quiksilver Festival by Swatch made a memorable return to the shores of southwest France from 19 – 27 September. Against the coastline of Hossegor, Capbreton and Seignosse, the annual festival featured a packed lineup of live music from the likes of Ed Banger and SO ME , art and skate events, plus a surf competition gathering world class riders.
Schön!’s music editor Shama Nasinde sat down with the face of Jamaica’s surf scene and Quiksilver athlete Shama Beckford in Hossegor.
Hailing from Bull Bay, a beach town 20 minutes outside of Kingston, Jamaica, Beckford says he was “terrified of the sea” when he was kid but hearing the laughter of his siblings on the beach made him curious. Already a skater, the allure of surfing caught him at the age of six.
“I remember vividly just being amazed by what surfing looked like. It looked like it was like defying everything that I knew,” he says in awe.
“I’m happy I found surfing. It changed my life.”
At 30, Beckford is just as animated about surfing as when he rode his first wave. H e radiates the positive energy of someone aligned with their purpose.
After all, against the odds, Beckford reached a level that not many before him were able to. “There was no professional surfer from Jamaica before me,” he says.
“ Billy Wilmot , who runs Jamnesia surf , started surfing in the 70s and kind of gave birth to our generation of surfers… it’s a really small community because there are no real opportunities or examples of people making it in the world of surfing.”
At 17, Beckford set his sights on making a name for himself. He entered the only paid surf contest in Jamaica and used the prize money to fly to Florida.
“I remember winning it and I made probably like a $1000, right? And to me, at that time, it was like big money.
With my mum being a single mum raising seven kids, it was never even a thought to say, mum, could you help me with a ticket to go? I knew from when I was young that if I was gonna do it, it was up to me to do it.”
Although his trip wasn’t the career break he’d hoped for, he did save up enough from washing cars to buy his first custom surfboard. “I remember being so excited because every board I’ve had before then was from somebody who was travelling to Jamaica and left aboard behind or a hand me down from somebody.
I’d never had a brand new surfboard.” Beckford remained determined, travelling to California the next year to compete against some of the best in the game. “It was a lightbulb moment because it was like, all right.
People weren’t just saying so because I’m from Jamaica, but I can actually surf, you know?”
Since then, Beckford’s skill and perseverance have made his childhood dream a reality. He’s a national champion, signed with Quiksilver in 2026 and became the face of Quiksilver’s first Bob Marley collection in June.
“It was a big moment for me and an honour to wave the flag of Jamaica on such a big platform and Quiksilver did such an amazing job with the line. I feel like it was so tasteful and so true to the culture.”
Beckford’s visibility has become his superpower and he hopes to change the narrative in a culture where there is caution around the ocean. “Despite popular belief, a lot of Jamaicans don’t know how to swim,” he says.
“I think that’s what kind of stops a lot of people from venturing into the world of surfing because it’s this fear behind the ocean. I remember I had friends that used to get scolded for going in the water without their parents knowing.”
Now, Beckford is the example he didn’t see in the international surf scene growing up and hopes surfing can give kids back home the opportunities it has given him. “I know the value of giving back,” he says. “I’m always giving away surfboards because I know a surfboard can change somebody’s life. I’m grateful that I inspire people to step out of what I think is the norm [and] try some different.”
photography. Marie Pfisterer talent. Shama Beckford words. Shama Nasinde
Few faces have come to define an era quite like Twiggy ’s. With her cropped hair, doe eyes and unmistakable presence, she became the face of the 1960s almost overnight — a working-class girl from London who never set out to become a global icon and a cultural monolith. More than six decades later, the woman behind that image remains just as compelling.
In ‘Twiggy’, director Sadie Frost revisits the extraordinary life of Lesley Hornby, tracing her unexpected rise from aspiring fashion designer to the world’s first supermodel, and following the many reinventions that came afterwards: actress, singer, Broadway performer, designer, television personality, wife, mother and grandmother. Featuring an extraordinary archive alongside reflections from friends and collaborators including Paul McCartney, Dustin Hoffman and Joanna Lumley, the film looks beyond the mythology of Twiggy to the person who lived through it.
For Twiggy, agreeing to the documentary was no small decision. Her life, she says, is also the story of her family, and putting it on a screen meant opening a deeply personal archive. But Frost offered something that felt different: a shared understanding of what it means to grow up in the public eye, to reinvent yourself and to navigate a career that never followed a straight line.
What emerges is a portrait of a woman who became a fashion icon almost by accident, but whose life was never defined by the image the world created around her. Her story is one of instinct, reinvention and an openness to whatever came next — from the fashion world to film, Broadway, television and design.
She has spent a lifetime embracing the unexpected, often saying yes before she knew quite how she would do it. And perhaps that is the enduring appeal of Twiggy: beneath the extraordinary photographs and cultural mythology is someone remarkably grounded: curious, warm, funny and deeply devoted to her family.
Her story is ultimately less about becoming an icon than about remaining herself — and finding, along the way, that kindness, humour and an open mind can take you somewhere you never imagined.
In conversation with Schön!, Twiggy and Sadie Frost sit down to discuss the making of the documentary and why now was the perfect time to share her story.
You said you’d been approached many times before to make a documentary and always said no. What was different about the way Sadie framed it that made you say yes?
There were some old documentaries that were done by various people years ago, and over the last 20 years or so I’ve been approached to do a big, proper, in-depth documentary. But it’s a big decision to make because it’s very personal to me.
It’s my life and my family, and you have to consider everybody. Most people have a family album where maybe once a year at Christmas the family sit down and go through it, but to actually have your life up on a big screen is a very big decision.
I also knew that if I didn’t do it with somebody soon, somebody might do it anyway. Sadie had just done her first documentary about Mary Quant, and she came on my podcast, ‘Tea with Twiggy’, to talk about it.
I watched ‘Quant’ and thought she’d done a brilliant job. I said to her, “So you’ve got to do another documentary now.
What are you going to do?” She said she’d loved doing Mary Quant because so much of the research was about the ’60s, and she’d love to find somebody else who was involved with that era. Then she said, “Oh, I should do you.” I said, “Oh, okay.
Let’s meet privately and talk about it.”
We went to lunch the following week and got on really well. I loved the fact that she’d had a similar existence to me. She’s been a model, she’s an actress, she’s a designer — and I’m very passionate about designing clothes too. It just gelled. She took the idea to Nick Hanson at Film Soho, who distributed ‘Quant’, and he said yes.
You have this reputation for being a real “yes” person. Throughout the documentary, there’s this sense of you thinking, “Why wouldn’t I try acting? Why wouldn’t I design clothes? Why wouldn’t I go to Broadway?” Has that openness carried you throughout your life?
To a certain extent. I didn’t plan my career at all. The ’60s seem to strike a chord with so many young people now. I get a lot of mail from girls and boys who are 14, 16, 18, up to 25, doing projects on the ’60s. They’re obsessed with it. I think they know more about the ’60s than I do.
What do you think it is about that era that continues to resonate with people who weren’t even alive then?
Amazing things happened then. England, and London especially — and Liverpool, because you can’t think about the ’60s without the Beatles — suddenly became the focus of the world.
Fashion was changing too. Up until the early ’60s, fashion came from Paris and was very elegant and grown-up.
Suddenly, there was Biba and the wonderful Barbara Hulanicki, making clothes for teenagers at an amazing price. I remember saving my pocket money and going down to buy things.
You could get a dress for two pounds and a pair of boots for four pounds, and they were amazing clothes. She was revolutionary.
Then there was Mary Quant, the music, the art — Peter Blake and so many others. London was such a focus.
What’s weird to me is that it’s struck a chord with young people now. It’s amazing.
The world came to know you as Twiggy, but how important was it to you that Sadie told the story of Lesley Hornby, the person behind the icon?
Very important. I hope it shows young people that I didn’t plan what happened to me.
I was a happy young girl. I had a lovely mum and two lovely sisters who are still around.
I was one of those weirdos who loved school. I was planning to get my exams, go to art college and study fashion and design.
I wanted to be a designer. Then all of this happened to me.
If you look at the models of that day, there was Jean Shrimpton, Veruschka — all these extraordinarily beautiful women who were five foot ten, five foot eleven. I was five foot six and tiny.
I didn’t look like them, and that was probably why it happened. When I went to Leonard’s to have my hair styled for a test shot, Leonard came over and said, “Can I cut your hair?” I didn’t want my hair cut, but I was so shy I didn’t say no.
I just sat there.
I often think, “Wow, if I’d been a bit bolder and said no, I might not be sitting here now.” That haircut led to a journalist seeing it, and that was the missing link. Then Diana Vreeland, the editor of American Vogue, brought me over to America and, as I always say, she turned me global.
One of my favourite stories in the film is your first trip to New York and the hysteria around you, including that extraordinary photoshoot with people wearing Twiggy masks. You nearly got crushed in the crowds. Now that you’re back in New York doing press for this documentary, does it feel full circle?
I have to say, I love New York. America has been so good to me.
Obviously, what happened to me initially happened in England, and London will always be my home. But America embraces something new.
They love success, and they do it with love. When Diana Vreeland brought me over and introduced me to the greater world, America embraced me.
When I did my Broadway show with Tommy Tune, they were so gracious and welcoming to me.
I owe America a lot because it could have all just stayed in England very easily. America embraced me and always has. That’s why I’m so excited that we’re launching the documentary here. It’s already been out in Europe, Japan and Australia, and we’ve had amazing feedback and reviews, so it’s very exciting.
When you first arrived in New York, did you have any idea how intense the reaction would be?
No, I didn’t expect it. The Beatles had come to New York earlier, in the early ’60s, and I came in 1967, so there was still a bit of that British Invasion feeling.
It was weird. I did nearly get squashed.
I thought the photographer was mad when he said I was going to have a bodyguard. I said, “I don’t need a bodyguard.
I know I’m little, but I’m strong.” Obviously, I did need one. Crowds can get out of hand because people push from balconies, and it was a bit scary.
Sadie has spoken about the parallels between your lives — modelling, acting, motherhood and living under public scrutiny. Did that shared experience make it easier for you to be vulnerable with her?
I thought it did. Especially being in the public eye, because she understands what it’s like professionally and privately. Lots of documentary directors don’t know what that’s like, but she’s kind of been there and knows what it feels like. I also loved the fact that she was a woman. To do a story about me, I thought, “She’ll kind of get it.” That was important to me.
Was having a female lens particularly meaningful when you think back to the photographers and the world you entered as a young model, where women were often expected to just put up with difficult behaviour?
One of my favourite people in the documentary is Joanna Lumley, when she tells the stories of the earlier models and what they had to go through. They really weren’t treated very nicely.
I was very lucky because I came along later and I always had a chaperone, mainly my dad. My dad was a real old-fashioned guy from Bolton.
I had to get permission to leave school, and he was very adamant about it. He’d say, “When you go to these studios, because I know what these photographers are like…” I sailed through without any of that going on, so I was very lucky.
You reinvented yourself repeatedly — from model to actress, singer, designer and television personality. Was there a particular moment when you realised you could actually take control of the direction of your career?
I don’t think I ever really planned it. I certainly didn’t plan to go into performing.
Then I met Ken Russell. I think most people have somebody in their life who changes their life so dramatically, professionally or personally.
Ken was certainly that person for me. I was only 18 when I met him.
I was doing okay as a model, travelling the world, earning my crust and loving every minute. Then Ken cast me in The Boy Friend.
I thought, “Oh my God, can I do this?” I knew I could sing because I sang in the choir, but I’d never danced, and I’d never acted. He was very brave to cast me, but he did, and it changed my life.
I loved making that film. It was like going into a secret garden.
I thought, “Oh my God, this is amazing.”
Then, 12 years later, Tommy Tune brought me over for Broadway. When he called, I thought it was going to be a film. I was fine in front of the camera, because I was used to that. Then he said, “No, it’s not a film. It’s on Broadway.” I said, “Oh, I can’t do that.” And he said, “There’s no such word as can’t. Pack your bags and get to New York.”
And then you had to learn tap dancing for eight shows a week.
Exactly. I went into heavy rehearsal with a wonderful dance captain. I spent eight in the morning until seven at night learning tap. I could basically tap as I did in ‘The Boy Friend’, but if you’re doing eight shows a week, you have to be a bit better than that. I was never Tommy’s stand-in, but I got to the point where I could do my tap numbers.
Was Broadway the professional achievement you’re most proud of?
I loved it, and to me that was professionally what I was most proud of because I didn’t think I could do it. It just shows you that if you set your mind to something, you can learn and drag things out of yourself.
I wanted to please the people who’d given me that chance. I wanted to please Ken Russell and Tommy because they’d taken a big punt on me.
I didn’t want to let them down.
Hosting your own BBC variety series meant carrying a show rather than being photographed or directed by someone else. How different did that responsibility feel compared with modelling or acting?
I loved doing it. I think the success of The Boy Friend gave me courage.
If you do something and it succeeds, you suddenly think, “Oh, maybe I can do this.” I try to say that to young people because I was shy, scared and not confident at all. I thought I was funny-looking.
I didn’t expect any of this to happen to me. I loved clothes.
I was passionate about making clothes and fabrics. Put me in a fabric house, and I’m as happy as a clam.
Give me a sewing machine, put my music on — that’s my idea of heaven. It wasn’t that I was ambitious and confident, because I wasn’t.
It all came as a big shock to me, just as much as it did to everybody else.
There are some incredibly famous people in the documentary, from Paul McCartney and Dustin Hoffman to Joanna Lumley. Was there anyone whose contribution surprised or moved you most?
Dustin really amazed me. I had nothing to do with those interviews — they were Sadie’s ideas — so God bless him for doing it.
I love him. He’s a very, very good friend.
My husband Lee, who’s an actor, director and writer, did ‘The Merchant of Venice’ with Dustin back in the late ’80s, and they became really close. So, as families, we’ve stayed very close.
I was very touched that he did it, and it really makes me laugh.
His comment about you having a truck driver’s laugh really made me laugh too.
There used to be a very famous TV and radio presenter in England called Terry Wogan. He had a loop of my laugh on his early-morning show. He’d play it just to cheer people up, so Dustin was right on the button there.
Fashion critic Suzy Menkes says in the film that you changed fashion simply by smiling, and you’ve also said that kindness is central to how you live. Do you think that warmth and sense of humour helped you survive — and stay yourself — through all those years of fame?
I think that’s important. We’ve all met people, especially in the entertainment business, who take it very seriously.
It’s important, and I think it’s important to work as hard as you can on something, but it’s not life and death. I’m not a surgeon.
When Tommy asked me to do Broadway, and I said, “I can’t,” I suddenly thought, “Well, what’s the worst that can happen?” The worst that can happen is they’ll give me terrible reviews and the show will close. I’m not going to be killed.
Sometimes you can take it all a bit too seriously, so I try and balance it. The most important thing is my life and my family — my husband, my kids and now my grandkids.
After seeing your entire life condensed into a film, what do you hope people understand about the woman behind one of the most recognisable faces of the 20th century?
I don’t really know what my legacy is. But if you put your mind to something, and again, I’ve said it all along: be kind to people.
Kindness gets much more out of life than being horrible to people. It’s much easier to get along with people.
There’s a saying in England — or maybe it’s worldwide — that you get more with honey than you do with vinegar. It’s true.
In every life, you come across somebody who thinks the other way and does everything with vinegar, and they’re not happy, and it doesn’t make you happy. Whereas if you can get on with people, be kind and be generous, they give it back to you.
It’s an all-win situation.
Sadie, after ‘Quant’, what made Twiggy feel like the natural next chapter?
I think things are serendipitous, really. I’d been an actor, a fashion designer and a producer, but I never thought I’d direct.
Then I was asked to do ‘Quant’, took a documentary directing course and started researching Mary Quant. I felt like I really understood her, and once I connect with someone, I want to tell their story.
The ’60s were also fascinating to me because my mum had me at 16 and my dad at 18. They were these psychedelic, rock-and-roll, mad people, so researching that period taught me a lot about my parents and the bohemian world they came from.
After ‘Quant’ came out, I was doing press and appeared on Tea with Twiggy. Twiggy asked what I was doing next, and I realised I had nothing planned after three years of working every day.
I just threw it out there: “Why don’t I direct you?” It was a cheeky comment, but then it became a reality. She felt perfect.
There was this incredible archive from the ’60s, she was the first supermodel and “It girl,” and there was all this amazing material with Woody Allen and Bert Stern. And she was still here, so we could really bond.
I also saw a woman who had reinvented herself many times, which I really identified with. Telling her story felt like an honour.
Do you remember when you first noticed Twiggy and her cultural impact?
I’d obviously known of Twiggy because she’s such an enormous cultural figure, but what became interesting was getting deeper into the person behind the image. She wasn’t just this face from the ’60s. She’d acted, sung, made television and designed clothes. There were so many different layers to explore.
You spent a huge amount of time going through the archive. What was that process like?
I start with the big themes and work out how I want to tell the story—whether that’s through animation, diary storytelling, photographs or graphics. Then, with an archive researcher, I build the archive around those themes and the stories people tell in their interviews.
I love the research and editing. The release is harder because suddenly you’re out there talking about it rather than sitting safely behind the camera or in the edit suite.
Was there anything in the archive or in speaking to the interviewees that really surprised you?
I loved Twiggy’s raw honesty and humour, and the fact that she was a child when all of this happened to her. She had to grow up in the public eye without compromising who she was. She never became a victim. A lot of famous people can get swallowed up by the clichés that come with fame, but she never let that happen.
One of the clips that really stood out to me was the now-infamous Woody Allen interview. Why was it important to include?
It’s a genius clip. It was before she was Twiggy and Woody Allen was Woody Allen, but you can see how somebody treats a woman before either of them becomes famous.
He was trying to intimidate her and make her look bad, and her reaction is so telling. What’s interesting is that Twiggy has told me she was actually very nervous and embarrassed because she didn’t know the philosophers he was asking her about.
So there’s another layer to that clip.
You and Twiggy have both experienced fame from a young age. Did that shared experience create trust between you?
I’ve been in the public eye, so I know how it feels to be exploited or for people to try to get things out of you that make you uncomfortable. I had to challenge Twiggy, but I also wanted her to be happy.
I didn’t want to bully her. These films take two or three years, so you get to know somebody very well.
I’ve had enough conflict in my life. I want to go to work, enjoy it and get on with people.
It’s up to me to make people feel comfortable.
Was there something specific you wanted to avoid with the documentary, particularly when thinking about a male versus female lens?
I do think being a woman influences how I approach things. I’m interested in doing things that aren’t necessarily on the nose. I like unexpected juxtapositions and wanted to do something different with Twiggy’s story. But ultimately, I wasn’t going to make her do anything she didn’t want to do. If she said, “No, I’m not happy with that,” I’d say, “Okay, fine.”
Twiggy has spoken about kindness being central to who she is. Did you see that quality at work while you were making the film?
Absolutely. She’s very kind, caring and generous. Right from the beginning, I’d go to her house and just want to hang out because she and her husband are so lovely. They’d make you tea and cream cheese bagels, and you felt like you were visiting family. But she knows what she wants, so you don’t want to cross her either.
Were there moments during filming that changed your understanding of her?
When you work with someone for that long, you understand their vulnerabilities and complexities. Twiggy and I are both roughly from the same area.
We’re both working-class girls, both models turned actors turned designers, and family comes first for both of us. I feel like we’re going to be in each other’s lives forever.
The first time I showed her the rough cut, we both burst into tears and hugged each other. It wasn’t all easy, but when we got the great reviews and receptions, we did that together.
That’s girl power.
You’ve got an enormous cast of voices here. How did you decide whose perspective earned a place in the film?
It’s a very evolving process. You interview people and then see what’s most relevant to the story. Sometimes you film people, and they don’t make the final cut. Sienna [Miller] was important because she knew Twiggy and they were friends. Brooke had worked with her. Dustin [Hoffman] knew Lee and had lots of anecdotes, and Paul McCartney obviously knew her well. It all just comes together. It’s very serendipitous.
What do you hope younger viewers who don’t have that original context take away from the film?
Twiggy is still on every fashion editor’s mood board, and young people at fashion school know her. My daughter Iris, who has short blonde hair and is quite androgynous like Twiggy, once called her “a goddess.” I think young women recognise that Twiggy paved the way and broke boundaries.
Her authenticity is really important. There’s a desire now for something more real and less manufactured.
When people see this film, I hope they understand that you can have an identity without creating an over-the-top, manufactured version of yourself. It’s not just about how you look.
Your personality is the most important thing.
‘Twiggy’ is available now on a special edition DVD – with exclusive bonus features not available on digital versions – and streaming platforms.
twiggy photography. Brian Aris additional photography. Courtesy of Studio Soho interview. Kelsey Barnes